Both my boys tell me their friends do not talk to their parents as my boys talk to me. I smile and feel good when I hear this. I have tried to model parenting as you suggest. I talk about integrity and honesty often with my boys. I point out examples of integrity and the lack of integrity in the news. Sadly, integrity is lacking all too often.

I believe our children can handle real, sad, impactful aspects of life most of us face directly or experience via friends along our path. Every time my boys go to a party, even if nearby, I look at them and say, “Be smart.”

I tell my boys I love them often. When our children know they are loved, they are more likely to talk to their parents.

So far, so good …

A few organizations back up his suggestion: “Discussing and listening to teens can build mutual trust,” the Orange County Rape Crisis Center advises parents on talking to teens about sexual violence. The organization offers a list of seven “messages to share with your teens,”broaching everything from dating and sex to consent and sexual assault. Check out their full list here.

Here’s another reader, who also encourages parents to pursue difficult conversations with their teens:

As with so many things, conversations regarding respect for women and girls must be repeated over time. Unfortunately, the news will provide many teachable moments on this subject.

When my son was in middle school, there was a story on the radio about a local woman who was beaten, and I talked to my appalled son about how unacceptable that behavior is. Then, there was the teenage girl who'd been kidnapped for a number of months and was found alive across the street from our home. We discussed the many things that were wrong with that situation as the case went through the courts. It can be difficult to keep these conversations age appropriate, but in general, details aren't necessary.

My son is now 17-year-old gentleman who will enter college a year from now. We have discussed the Stanford case and consent. As he's gotten older, I’ve asked more questions. By his answers, I can tell he really gets it and is fully capable of moral reasoning.

These aren't the easiest conversations, especially the first one, but you can't teach your values without having these conversations.

Another parent of a teenage boy weighs in:

I repeatedly have talks with my 14-year-old son about sex, love and women. I have told him that sex is one of the best parts of life, but that you need to be old enough and ready to bear the responsibilities. I have told him that birth control is his responsibility, no one else’s. I have repeatedly explained that it is the female’s duty to consent. If she doesn’t say yes, she means no. Do not take anything for granted. Be sure that you both want the same things. Try not to get carried away by your emotions and desires. Do not assume anything.

Soon, I will begin to talk to him about alcohol and how it can impair judgment, not that it is in any way an excuse. It, however, bears discussion.

An important note on that reader’s email: It is not always “the female’s duty to consent.” For instance, under California’s new “yes means yes” consent law, that responsibility lies on both participants in the act, regardless of gender. From the Associated Press’s 2015 report on the law:

Under a “yes means yes” standard, sexual activity is considered consensual only when both partners clearly state their willingness to participate through “affirmative, conscious and voluntary agreement” at every stage.

Here’s Stop It Now!, a nonprofit aimed at preventing child sexual abuse, with some advice on talking to teens—male or female—about consent:

Teens need information not only about child sexual abuse but also about the laws of consent in their state. As our judicial system holds more teens responsible as adults, there are significant and long-lasting results for teens who engage in illegal sexual behaviors, even with other teens who are close in age. “I know you and your girlfriend love each other but you are 19 years old and she is 15 and that makes being sexual with each other illegal. If she gets pregnant or her parents press charges, you could have to register as a sex offender for the rest of your life. It is important for both of you to wait until you are older.”

The U.S. Department of Health & Human Services offers a state-by-state breakdown of “age of consent laws.”

Have advice of your own? Let us know.

I also hope they wrap her in the courage to know that even if she encounters a bigger, stronger, perhaps karate-trained villain(s) who wound or outnumber her, she is not at fault. It is never the victim's responsibility to prevent rape or any other assault.

It is also important to teach our children that while there may be a time to fight, it is equally important to learn when to run if able, or when to remain still and quiet to survive to tell your story, even if you wished to die during the fight. Those are all equally noble and wise choices.  

Victims can’t prevent rape. Part of being a victim is being stripped of choices. Victims and their parents are usually only left with choice in how to respond to—and survive— the reality that they are now part of the unfortunate one-in-six statistic. (And as noted by other readers, the perpetrator isn’t always a stranger.)

And if she is successful, still wrap her in comfort; she'll need it because she is a survivor of attempted rape.

The idea that teaching self-defense could somehow shield a woman from sexual assault is a controversial one. And it teeters dangerously close to victim blaming—that is, the implication that it was the victim’s responsibility to prevent the crime (see also: concerns about the victim’s dress or level of alcohol consumption).

In an open letter to the victim in the Stanford case posted by BuzzFeed, Vice President Biden writes, “I join your global chorus of supporters, because we can never say enough to survivors: I believe you. It is not your fault.” He continues:

What you endured is never, never, never, NEVER a woman’s fault. [...]

We will speak to change the culture on our college campuses — a culture that continues to ask the wrong questions: What were you wearing?

Why were you there? What did you say? How much did you drink?

Instead of asking: Why did he think he had license to rape?

I’m about as politically correct a person as you can imagine, but I refuse to pretend that there is nothing a woman can do to make rape less likely. Staying in control of one’s faculties may not prevent all attacks, but it will make them less likely to happen. Rapists choose their victims for their vulnerability, and a woman fully aware of her own surroundings is safer than one who is drunk—not absolutely safe, but certainly safer.

I’ve lived near a major college for a very long time, and there is no question that alcohol abuse is involved in almost every case of campus rape, whether it’s stranger rape or acquaintance rape. [CB note: “almost every case” is very unlikely; “At least 50% of college student sexual assaults are associated with alcohol use,” according to Campus Safety magazine, which provides more data here.] Alcohol also been involved in a number of cases of murder here. Most recently one drunken student stabbed another drunken student to death because of something nasty one said to the other as they left a bar.  

That does not mean that I believe that women who are drunk “asked for it” or that drunken rapists are not responsible for their behavior or that the guy who was murdered “asked for it” because he was drunk and said something he shouldn’t have. I am repulsed by the judge in California who apparently believed that the Stanford swimmer was not responsible for committing rape because he was drunk and that an unconscious woman gave consent.

A lot of children begin to drink dangerously long before they go off to college. More begin to do it when they leave home for college or once they are out of high school and working. Too often, I’ve heard other parents talk about their children’s drunken behavior with a rueful sense of inevitability. Don’t laugh about it, and even more importantly, look at your own behavior and the behavior of adults close to you. Children learn from the behavior that is modeled in front of them. Be sure you are a good role model and don’t excuse the behavior of your family and friends. Be honest with your children. Every single adult alcoholic or drug abuser was once a child who learned from the behavior of others. It’s not enough to just say no; you need to make sure you are modeling healthy behavior yourself.

Finally, I’d add to my own children if they were going off to college now: Stay away from large, drunken parties and fraternity houses that are often the site of those parties. Believe it or not, you do not have to participate in the drunken behavior and most students don’t. Even at a large party school, there are many students who don’t spend their time drunk and stoned. Choose friends who don’t drink to get falling-down drunk every weekend. And if you are the person getting drunk all the time, admit that you have a problem that needs to be addressed and either change the behavior. If you can't change the behavior on your own, get help. It is not normal behavior to spend every weekend drunk or stoned.

Renie followed up:

I realize I was writing as a mother of two daughters and left out much of what we must say to our sons. First of all, fathers as well as mothers need to talk to their children about difficult topics. Just as women can talk about a woman’s perspective with more knowledge about women, so can fathers talk better about men and sex.

And both need to talk very frankly with their children that consent is required at any point in a sexual encounter. No consent means: time to stop. It doesn’t matter at what point. And consent requires that a partner be able to consent. If a woman passes out during a sexual encounter, that means stop now. The judge in the Stanford case clearly had not learned that lesson. (Along with that discussion, it’s important to also discuss the role of pornography in normalizing rape.)

And, finally, for both young men and young women, we need to let them know about the joy of sex in a loving relationship. I’m not saying “no sex before marriage”; what I am saying is that sex between two people who know each other and care for each other and want to please each other and be pleased is so much better than drunken encounters, even if rape is not involved.

Another reader also warns against drunken encounters:

I don’t have kids, but my alma mater is being audited by the Department of Education for its handling of allegations of sexual assault on campus, so I’ve been thinking a lot about this lately. There’s no question that alcohol needs to be addressed in the conversation—not in terms of promiscuity or “hook up culture,” but in terms of rape. Most of the reader comments I’ve read so far focus on building empathy and respect (all well and good), but at some point you have to say, “If you have sex with someone who is intoxicated, you’re committing rape and you should know that you can be prosecuted for that.”

Part of what makes Turner’s case exceptional is that it’s so clear cut, but there are many other cases where there aren’t witnesses or the woman isn’t unconscious. I can’t tell you how often I heard in college some variation of “I hooked up with so-and-so last night when we were so drunk.” I really wish that during college orientation someone had laid out exactly what constituted consent and rape—namely, that someone who is intoxicated can’t consent to sex, and that if you can’t tell if someone is too intoxicated to consent, you shouldn’t have sex with them.

***

A reader recalls a horrible experience:

Almost 15 years ago, when I was a freshman in college, I was raped by a classmate. But unlike the woman in the Stanford case, I didn’t report it.

I had been drinking at a campus-wide party that night and a small group eventually moved to the dorm room of someone everyone knew, someone I trusted. I remember him plying me with shots of expensive vodka: “See, you can’t even taste it!”

And then, suddenly, everyone was gone, and only the two of us remained. He asked if I wanted to watch a movie and I said “sure.” I must have passed out soon after; I couldn’t tell you which movie he selected.

When I regained consciousness, he was having sex with me, without a condom, muttering to himself about how much he liked it. When he went to roll over, I grabbed my things and ran. I crawled into the window of my own dorm room and then collapsed on the floor, sobbing uncontrollably. My roommate woke up and, not knowing what to do, called another friend. Together they sat with me and comforted me until I was ready to talk.

And eventually I did talk, but only to them. At that time, my understanding was that rape involved force and not just lack of consent. He didn’t hold me down when I tried to run away, I told myself. And maybe I had given him some idea that I was interested. I did stay behind, I agreed to watch a movie. Was this really rape?

If I ever had a case that it was rape, I blew it with my next move: I went on a date with him. He asked me to dinner and I agreed, but the date ended without even a kiss goodnight. My repulsion of him did not ebb over that plate of pasta.

In the years since, I have puzzled over this. Why would I agree to go on a date with this man? What on earth was I thinking?

The best answer I can give is that I didn’t want to be a rape victim. At that time, I had only had sex with one other person. I didn’t want my second sexual encounter to be a rape. I wanted to believe that he cared about me. I wanted it to all be a big misunderstanding.

But it wasn’t a misunderstanding. I learned later that there were other girls—girls that came before me and girls that came after. Yet no one ever said a thing. Our perpetrator kept perpetrating and we kept blaming ourselves.

I am so proud of the brave young woman at the center of the Stanford case, for speaking up and telling her story, for doing what my classmates and I did not have the courage to do 15 years ago.

Have you ever heard of AlcoholEdu? [Sample video above.] It is a common “alcohol education” program for incoming freshmen, and it is the most alarmist, hilariously exaggerated shit of all time. It said having one (1) shot of liquor was “binge drinking” and “extremely dangerous.” I’d had seven beers my first night at college, and woke up feeling great. I used AlcoholEdu’s BAC calculator to see how drunk I’d been. It listed one symptom I should have from drinking that much: death.

Similarly, I got the full experience of the “just say no” era of drug education. I was convinced that weed would kill you, or at least give you profound, permanent brain damage. I had no idea that marijuana was less dangerous than, say, cocaine, until some friends told me. (And people wonder why kids listen to their friends for advice on sex stuff. Sometimes, the friends legitimately give more accurate information! How sad is that?)

Importantly, I’m sure they never said weed would kill you, since it won’t. But they gave us a blizzard of symptoms for a long list of drugs, and death came up multiple times, and it was all scary, and I didn’t know to make negative inferences from omissions.  So I came away with that impression.

By college, I saw all of these lessons as adult handwringing about “kids these days.” Drinking and drugs was rebellion against oppressive, restrictive authority that was often wrong anyway. And I probably did more bad stuff than I would have, given non-alarmist information.

And I had similar experiences with sex ed, although more about STDs and hookups than rape. I eventually saw concern for STDs and waiting until you’re in a relationship to have sex in the same way as the drugs and alcohol “education”—because they were taught by the same people, in the same alarmist, overly conservative way, with the same moralizing.  

I suspect hookup culture is partially a response to sex ed that says sex without a serious relationship is unusual and morally wrong, that I and presumably others heard.

And I received anti-rape education at various times. I knew people who believed all the “rape myths,” who were walking embodiments of “rape culture.” They saw the anti-rape education the same way they saw the alcohol/drugs education, as get-off-my-lawnism.

I wonder how I would have reacted if told that “Consent is a voluntary, sober, imaginative, enthusiastic, creative, wanted, informed, mutual, honest, and verbal agreement” (that’s real).

There are many unspoken rules for boys about how to pursue girls:

• Don’t objectify or be creepy.
• Be nice but not a “nice guy.”
• Don’t be too upfront, but don’t hide the ball too long, etc.  

The way people discuss objectifying in particular bothers me, as people often act like it’s wrong to want to have sex with someone due to physical looks. As if they don’t want that all the time.

We talk about teaching “everyone” consent, but really we view girls as the arbiters of sexual morality, who pronounce the true meaning of an encounter, and the boys as the suspect, just waiting to mess up and meekly walk home—not just rejected, but shamed or possibly punished. This all takes place in a general environment of teenage bewilderment about anything sex related.

And like with drugs, the overall message I got was one not always explicitly told: As a guy, just wanting sex from girls makes you suspect. Predatory. Gross. The problem.

It’s not surprising, then, that red-pillers exist. [Background here] It’s an alternative narrative, that society is wrong. You’re not the problem—the girls are! You’re not a bad guy. Society is already wrong about many other things—stands to reason, this too. If there’s no way to want sex without being immoral, then you either swear off sex, or accept your immorality.

I think a solution is education that treats boys with more sympathy, that sees boys not just as potential violators, but as kids trying to figure it out, who themselves can be treated badly while in the role of pursuing and trying to win over girls. We should have conversations that don’t always segue to rape when sex comes up.

The reason I didn’t listen to my alcohol/drug/sex education is because it seemed unrealistic and unfair. If consent education seems unrealistic and unfair, it won’t matter how many times we drill it into boys; they won’t listen. But if it treats boys sympathetically, and isn’t overly alarmist, I think they will.

If you’d like to respond, drop us a note. Here’s one more reader, Steve, who recalls the dark subconscious thoughts of his adolescence with brutal honesty:

Teaching young boys to play nice is good and useful. Modeling behavior toward women is also good and useful. But we need to do much more than that; we need to acknowledge that as these young boys grow into adolescence and early adulthood, they are going to bombarded by a combination of compelling physical urges and physical power while simultaneously achieving broad license to govern their own behavior, and that they must learn to channel and sublimate those things if they are not to harm others and themselves.

Nothing in my childhood prepared me for what happened as I entered puberty, and then physically matured into manhood. My unconscious night dreams went from being about toys and play, with an occasional nightmare about fire or powerlessness, to being violent and aggressive (with me in the central, powerful role) that still, 50 years later, astonishes me.

By the time I was 16, sex joined the nightly parade of dreams, and combined with daytime fantasy that involved more forms of penetration and domination than I could ever have imagined a few short years before. My body and mind seemed to be telling me that I needed sex, and I had everything else I needed to get it.

All of this is true, notwithstanding that I grew up in a home where any kind of disrespect toward girls or women was firmly frowned upon, and without any serious trauma at all in my life. I certainly heard about domestic violence in our neighborhood, but you didn’t see overt sexuality on TV or in print in those days, and there was certainly nothing modeled among the adults around me that would have led to these images; they came to me almost completely out of the blue.

And, when I became old enough to have access to alcohol, I quickly learned the toxic combination of urgency and permissiveness that alcohol fuels.

We need to help young men understand their responsibility to not “be themselves” when the potent combination of sex, power, and diminished social inhibitions come together, and we should start by at least admitting that these things are latent in many, if not most, young males. I could certainly have used some frank assistance with it in my youth.

Nothing about getting older has been more a relief to me than the eventual ascendance of control over the chaos that puberty and its aftermath introduced into my life.

Testosterone, of course, is the crux of what Steve is talking about. One of the best episodes of This American Life was devoted to the male hormone, and the segment featuring Griffin Hansbury was the most fascinating. Hansbury is a trans dude who, before transitioning with hormone therapy, “strongly identified as a woman at the time [attending Bryn Mawr College], as a feminist, and as a dyke.” Here’s a key part of the transcript:

Alex Blumberg: You have the testosterone of two linebackers.

Griffin Hansbury: Exactly. Exactly. That’s a lot. That’s a lot of T. And what’s amazing about it is how instantaneous it is, that it happens within a few days really. The world just changes.

Alex Blumberg: What were some of the changes that you didn't expect?

Griffin Hansbury: The most overwhelming feeling is the incredible increase in libido and change in the way that I perceived women and the way I thought about sex. Before testosterone, I would be riding the subway, which is the traditional hotbed of lust in the city. And I would see a woman on the subway, and I would think, she’s attractive. I’d like to meet her. What’s that book she’s reading? I could talk to her. This is what I would say.

There would be a narrative. There would be this stream of language. It would be very verbal.

After testosterone, there was no narrative. There was no language whatsoever. It was just, I would see a woman who was attractive or not attractive. She might have an attractive quality, nice ankles or something, and the rest of her would be fairly unappealing to me.

But that was enough to basically just flood my mind with aggressive, pornographic images, just one after another. It was like being in a pornographic movie house in my mind. And I couldn’t turn it off. I could not turn it off. Everything I looked at, everything I touched, turned to sex.

Anything you’d like to add this part of our discussion? Let us know and we’ll post.