Travel With MsGrammar

An Online Conference with
The Atlantic's Barbara Wallraff

November 3, 1994

The following is the transcript of a live online conference with Atlantic Monthly senior editor Barbara Wallraff as it appears in The Atlantic Monthly Online on the America Online network.

Hosted, with an introduction, by Scott Stossel

Travel, wrote Francis Bacon, is part of education. If this is true then Atlantic Monthly senior editor Barbara Wallraff must be well educated indeed. Though she has heretofore been primarily known online as MsGrammar, dispenser of grammar wisdom, Wallraff has edited The Atlantic's regular travel column since its debut, in 1988.

Wallraff, just back from a cruise down the coast of China, has traveled widely. She has, she says, met enthusiastic Atlantic readers in places ranging from the wilds of Alaska to Papeete, Tahiti. She has scuba dived at locations around the world, rented apartments in France, hiked through the New Zealand countryside, and explored the ruins of Monte Alban, in Oaxaca, Mexico. And along the way Wallraff has developed a taste for exotic cuisine--she's an international cook who counts a cannibal fork among her culinary utensils.

The number of places she's experienced vicariously, as travel editor, are of course even more numerous. She has edited articles on all manners of trips and vacations, and has read widely in the literature of travel, as her article in the November issue of The Atlantic demonstrates. In short, Wallraff is a walking compendium of travel knowledge.

The walls of Wallraff's office, where she edits and, ultimately, approves the galleys of every article (not just travel!) scheduled to appear in the magazine, are lined with as many travel books as you are likely to see in one place anywhere. She discusses some of them in her article "A World of Books," online now. And in her forthcoming article in the December Atlantic, Wallraff describes the diverse pleasures of southwestern Mexico.

So join us tonight as we discuss travel with Barbara Wallraff. She can't promise to know the answer to every question about every place--no one could--but she is well equipped to provide general advice about travel, and to discuss what a travel editor does. Share with her your questions and your travel experiences. If Bacon was right about travel being an education, then perhaps we can consider Wallraff an expert tutor in the subject.

StosselAtl: Welcome, Barbara!

MsGrammar: Thank you, I'm glad to be here.

StosselAtl: Let me start by asking you this: Does being a travel writer ruin things at all for you? That is, do you find you always have to be alert for writerly fodder, or that you are always having to think about what you might write?

MsGrammar: Good question... Now, I'm not expecting pity when I tell you this, but, yes. Traveling to write about it is quite different from traveling on vacation. My trip to China last month was a vacation, the first real one I've had in years, and it was quite a relief not to have to wonder what *other* people's responses to everything were going to be. I could just see for myself.

StosselAtl: Here's the first audience question: How do Atlantic travel articles differ from some of the glossy magazines'?

MsGrammar: We try very hard to talk not just about places that will be interesting to our readers but also to put in a sort of value-added something. For example, Geoffrey Wheatcroft, an English writer who lives in Bath recently wrote about Antigua, which is where the plantations mentioned in Mansfield Park are and he had a very knowledgeable, unusual perspective on the place that I don't think you'd be likely to find in too many other publications.

StosselAtl: Here's an important question: What item do you never leave home without?

MsGrammar: I don't use an American Express card but I do like to have my little clock radio. Getting the foreign radio stations can be a lot of fun and even in *good* hotels, you don't quite trust the wake-up calls. Or at least I don't.

StosselAtl: It's dinner time here on the east coast. An audience member asks: What's the worst food you've ever eaten abroad?

MsGrammar: Ah, food abroad. Probably the *strangest* was the sliced sea slugs on a bed of algae served to me in great style in Japan. But I've have to say that the *worst* was stuff I got at Puerto Plata, the Domincan Republic, not because the people there don't know how to cook but because there's a whole district of restaurants where no local people come at all.

StosselAtl: Here's a thoughtful--and long!--question: In his book ABROAD, about British literary travel between the wars, Paul Fussell makes the distinction between tourism and travel. He says that travel is a thing of the past, that by now, we're all tourists. What do you think of his distinction? What's the difference, if any, between a "tourist" and a "traveler"?

MsGrammar: Well, nobody likes to think of himself or herself as a tourist. It's become almost an insult. *Somebody* said -- I think it was Jonathan Raban -- that one is a traveler when one is someplace distant and has no other business besides travel for being there but I like to think of us all, so-called tourists along with everyone else as being travelers, or at least travelers-in-training.

StosselAtl: I think many travelers have found themselves in awkward or embarassing situations as a result of language problems. But what about cultural confusions? This person asks: In your travels have you ever experienced any cultural mix-ups such as a common American gesture meaning something completely different in another country?

MsGrammar: There's a book about gestures mentioned in my current article, about travel books and practically my favorite piece of information that I didn't have time to put in the piece was that in Russia and a few other places, at a symphony or a sports event it's very rude to enter a row facing the stage or arena. You have to face the people you're squeezing past or they'll think you're awful. Of course, that's not quite what you asked. I think people tend to know when you're foreign that you're likely to do something stupid but mean perfectly well. So an attitude of 'Silly me" goes a long way toward being polite.

StosselAtl: Perhaps taking his cue from Francis Bacon's quote about travel as education, FollowLead asks: Is is important to you to learn *before* you travel, or *while* you travel? Or neither?

MsGrammar: Well, FollowLead, I'd say both. For me, part of the *pleasure* of a trip is planning it, figuring out all the best things to do, and getting perspective with good books and then I enjoy having novels or good current-events books about places to read while I'm there. When you think about it, it's pretty strange to be reading John LeCarre or something in the Far East, or Amy Tan when you're in England.

StosselAtl: Brasscat has a specific question: I am taking a trip to costa rica in Jan. 1995, what immunizations are needed for the trip.

MsGrammar: Well, gosh. You got me. I'm a travel editor, not a travel agent. But if you live someplace where there's a travel medicine clinic they may have a computer hookup to either the State Dept. or the CDC which prepares these wonderful, extremely useful printouts which tell you not just what you're required to have but also what's a good idea: are the mosquitoes chloroquine-resistant, etc? So maybe you should check that out.

StosselAtl: Some of our audience members must be really hungry. Blattner asks: Have you ever eaten squid?

MsGrammar: All the time! Calamari is great.

StosselAtl: FollowLead has a question about Mexico: Does Mexico's current poverty put a damper on its vibrant history for the visitor?

MsGrammar: I'm no expert on political-economic matters but I think NAFTA is considered to be something very hopeful for Mexico, as well as the US. In a piece I wrote that will appear in December I talk about southwestern Mexico, which, when I was there last year looked fairly prosperous to me. I hope I'm not wrong.

StosselAtl: ANOTHER food question: Did you get any of the infamous rat on a stick in China?

MsGrammar: I saw 'em for sale at sidewalk stands but no, I didn't partake.

StosselAtl: Reissue asks: How does Ms. Grammer suggest a novice European traveler experience Italy for the first time?

MsGrammar: Step 1: get yourself to a good travel bookstore. There are maybe more books on Italy than on any other country except the U.S. See what looks congenial. By which I mean spend a while browsing, and then buy a few guidebooks with itinerary ideas. Many people love Tuscany, and The south of Italy is another favorite so you have to see what appeals most to you.

StosselAtl: The appropriately named Cruise Nu asks: What is your favorite cruise line?

MsGrammar: That's easy. Windstar. They have exceptionally beautiful ships, with big computer-controlled sails, and the food is good, the itineraries -- in the Caribbean, the Mediterranean, and the South Pacific -- are all interesting and enjoyable, and the staff is pleasant and the rates are quite reasonable (maybe $300 a day) for what you get. AND they are not paying me to say this. It's all true.

StosselAtl: In an age of rampant nationalism, this audience member's question is an important one: Have your many travels left you with the feeling that people are very similar or very different the world over?

MsGrammar: Well, I could argue that either way. There's a particular sensation I like, being someplace far from home which comes from looking around and realizing that *these* people are always there and they're harvesting wheat with a water buffalo or whatever while you and I are back home typing on our computers. The sense that the world is such a big place, and we're so small. I'm sure people in very different circumstances, in every place, feel that, and it's a sort of paradox, if you see what I mean.

StosselAtl: How important is knowing foreign languages when you're traveling? FollowLead asks: What languages do you speak (other than English)? If you speak the language, will the trip be more successful?

MsGrammar: One of the great thrills of my life was when I was just out of college and had learned a bit of Italian from a record and I got to Italy and went into a bar in the morning because bars are where everyone has breakfast and I let out this string of nonsense syllables that I'd only said in private before and darned if they didn't understand what I was saying and bring me coffee the way I like it and a nice sweet roll. So I think learning the language can be a real joy.

StosselAtl: JonnyXV asks: I like to travel to Thailand because the accomodations are inexpensive and the people charming. Any other suggestions?

MsGrammar: Speaking as an East Coast resident if you can take an interest in some of the more remote places in the Caribbean, by which I don't mean pricy private islands but places like Dominica or some of the outer islands of the Bahamas or some of the littler Cayman Islands maybe (that was a plug for our sponsor tonight) you will find friendly, welcoming people and cute little places to stay that are cheap.

StosselAtl: Bx3 BBB asks: What is your favorite place to visit in the U.S.

MsGrammar: Oh, my, there are a lot of them. I like to visit Arizona because it's where I grew up and the scenery is amazing and I like to go to New York and eat in the restaurants and go to galleries and shop and the Grand Tetons are unbelievably beautiful -- that's Montana and Wyoming and -- well, it all depends on what you're in the mood for.

StosselAtl: This may be a question best posed to a travel agent, but you do know a lot about cruises, Barbara: How do I find the best rate for a particular cruise for a great room? There are so many deals. How do I know the best one is being offered through a travel agent or newspaper. For example,AAA has a great rate for a Member Appreciation cruise.

MsGrammar: The discounts on cruises are coming primarily from what are called cruise-only agencies which get volume discounts from the cruise companies. So the thing to do is to find the names of some of them -- and I'm blanking on all except one I wouldn't recommend, or I'd tell you -- but they should be in newspaper ads and get on their mailing lists and you'll get whole catalogues of discount cruises in your mail every month or two.

StosselAtl: What's the most exotic place you've ever been? An audience member asks: Do you ever feel slightly imperialistic when you're traveling in some *exotic* non-Western country?

MsGrammar: Yes, indeed, I do. But I try to show some interest in how people do things where I am rather than insisting that things should be done the way I'm used to them and I hope that makes a non-imperialistic impression. On the other hand, there was the trip to Nicaragua where I really did wish the Intercontinental hotel would just *try* to cook a chicken the way us imperialists might expect it. That's not someplace I'd recommend for casual sightseeing.

StosselAtl: We know you're a great reader of travelogues. But I think this questioner wants to know about novels: Have you ever read a book set in another country that has made you want to visit?

MsGrammar: The Leopard, by Giuseppe di Lampedusa, made me want to go to Sicily and I did, and it made the experience richer and all those sweet, charming English novels, mostly by women writers made me want to go there and things by Jorge Luis Borges, much though I love them make me want to come back home and stay put.

StosselAtl: KerryAtco asks: Where do you consider it too unsafe to travel to right now?

MsGrammar: This is another thing that your tax dollars are being spent to find out and tell you. The State Dept. issues advisories, and if your travel agent can't get them (they should) you can probably call the State Dept. or whatever related government bureau is close at hand and get information about countries you're interested in.

StosselAtl: TVLLDR1 is going on a trip and wants to know: I plan to go to Costa Rica in the near future. How do you feel about the crime situation there? Is it extraordinary?

MsGrammar: Costa Rica calls itself the Switzerland of Central America though I've been told that people in all the countries around there laugh at that but it really is a pretty safe country, and I wouldn't worry more about crime there than I would at home.

StosselAtl: A devoted reader wants to know: Where are you going on your next trip? Will you be writing about it?

MsGrammar: Thanks. I like that. I'm beginning to make plans to go to Chile because civilized warm-weather vacations in the middle of our winter are something I really like. New Zealand, a few years ago, was just spectacular and the scenery, and even the people, I expect to be reminiscent of that.

StosselAtl: JoelHe has a question: What are your thoughts on Club Med and other all-inclusive vacations? Are discounts available?

MsGrammar: Discounts *were* available the last I heard, although you can't expect to go at the most popular times and get them. I once priced out what you'd pay if you stayed at a comparable hotel down the way from the Club Med, and I discovered that if you take advantage of the water sports and all the facilities that other places charge money for you really are getting a good deal but if all you want to do is lie on the beach, and maybe drink which *isn't* a deal at Club Med you'd be better off going someplace where the things you don't want aren't bundled into the price.

StosselAtl: A fellow scuba diver, ScubaPala, says: I'm headed off to do some diving in Fiji next week. Any suggestions for land based trips...to waterfalls or other sights?

MsGrammar: Fiji includes a number of different islands as I hope -- I'm sure -- you know you'll want to get off the main one if you can and explore some of the more remote places. But the scuba diving anywhere where they have trips should be fabulous and try to pick up the Lonely Planet guide to Fiji before you go, if you haven't already.

StosselAtl: We've had lots of great questions, and we'll only have time for one or two more (sorry Disney 55!). StosselAtl : MMSimon asks: If you could live anywhere besides U.S.A., where would it be?

MsGrammar: New Zealand, no question. Before I went, people kept saying the people and the food would be boring. But the food was fantastic, and the people were like all the characters from Lord of the Rings. They were colorful, and entertaining, and because New Zealand is an *underpopulated* country, they were just so glad to see you.

StosselAtl: I'd guess the asker of this next question is a woman: A lot of people consider Italian men a little hard to deal with. In your opinion, which country has the *worst* men?

MsGrammar: In college, when I spent some months in Mexico, I used to walk around in a baggy Indian thing over baggy jeans, just to be left alone. So either Mexico or Italy have been my least favorite. I don't really think it ought to be up to women to have to put men off but since it is: the thing that works is just never making eye contact. It's like a little magic trick. If you don't look 'em in the eye, they don't talk to you. Or, give it a try, anyway.

StosselAtl: Harss48A asks, A TRIFLE LOUD, the following: WHAT IS NECESSARY TO BE A TRAVEL EDITOR, TRAVEL - WRITING OR OTHER? HOW DOES ONE BREAK IN WITHOUT EXTENSIVE EXPERIENCE?

MsGrammar: You start by taking a trip and writing about it, maybe in a way that you think will appeal to your local newspaper, and if they publish the piece, then you have a sample of your work. And you use that to persuade someone to be interested in your next trip before you go, perhaps, and tell you what to look for and you kind of trade up, until you have extensive experience. That said, though, there are a lot of people out there either just writing sort of simple diaries of what they did on their trips or trying too hard and hoping they sound like Henry James. A bit of humility doesn't hurt. You want to ask yourself, Why would anyone be interested in this? And try to think of things that you really feel that other people *ought* to know and you want to tell them and then you'll have something really good to write.

StosselAtl: Many thanks, Barbara! And thank you audience. We had many, many great questions which, unfortunately, we didn't have time to get to. But feel to continue these travel discussions in the travel folder on our message board.

MsGrammar: Thanks for joining us. It was a pleasure.

StosselAtl: If you missed portions of tonight's conference, please visit The Atlantic Monthly's transcript library. This and all other conference transcripts are available for downloading. Barbara Wallraff's article "A World of Books" appears in the current issue of the magazine. Her article "More Than a Beach" will be online November 15. And watch for her new Word Court feature in the magazine. She'll be adjudicating on disputes about grammar and style, many of them presented to her by America Online subscribers.