Last month Jamie Fly and Gary Schmitt got a lot of attention by arguing that the garden variety bomb-Iran plans aren't ambitious enough. Rather than just use surgical strikes to set back Iran's nuclear program, they said, we should expand the target list and keep bombing until the government falls. Then you would get regime change without the hassle of boots on the ground.

Matthew Duss has suggested that proposals like this serve as framing devices. They're so radical that they expand the "Overton window" to the right, making standard bomb-Iran proposals sound moderate, Duss wrote in Salon.

But Duss, co-host of the Bloggingheads show Foreign Entanglements, apparently believes that everyone deserves their day in court. He gave Fly his. Here is the heart of their exchange: 


You can watch the whole conversation here.