Why Jonathan Lethem Loves Meta-Nonfiction and Hates Superhero Flicks

An interview with the writer about his new essay collection, The Ecstasy of Influence


Julie Jo Fehrle

In 2006, Jonathan Lethem sat across from Bob Dylan at a seaside hotel in Santa Monica. Later, recounting the meeting in a essay for Rolling Stone, Lethem described the singer this way: "the expressions on Dylan's face seem to compress and encompass versions of his persona across time." This description could also apply to Lethem's new collection, The Ecstasy of Influence, which investigates the way a writer's public persona and private self refract one another.

It's not your garden-variety essay collection. Lethem offers a career-spanning mélange of widely variant writings: long-form cultural criticism, incisive blog posts, short (and very short) fiction, personal reminiscences, textually approprative mashups, self-consciously fannish music writing, brief and evocative Borgesian meditations. It's not Todd Haynes' I'm Not There, it's "the gang's all here."

We encounter Lethem's adolescent, painfully worshipful homages to Phillip K. Dick alongside rhapsodic, incandescent pop cultural criticism alongside behind-the-scenes investigations of the taboo subjects novelists aren't supposed to acknowledge (tedious interviews, negative reviews, the elusiveness of book-tour bathroom breaks). Short introductions place each work within context, telling us why, in Lethem's view, it flopped or flew.

Crucial to the book's project is Lethem's attempt to unpack the authorial "I": to show that we are all as multifarious and shapeshifting as Dylan, containing within us not only many alternate selves, but a deep well of overt and covert influences. The book's title essay, "The Ecstasy of Influence," appeared in Harper's in 2007 and caused a stir for lifting passages wholesale from other writers, tweaking them, and stringing them along like beads. In Lethem's view, artists—and not just artists but anyone who employs speech—constantly borrow, crib, and genuflect; by embracing and celebrating our influences, the essay argues, we transmute appropriative anxiety into creative ecstasy.

Gradually, a refracted portrait of the author emerges: his obsessions and development over the years, as well as his slow transformation from obscure outsider (Peter Parkeresque comic geek) to celebrated insider (wordslinging cultural arbiter).  As a whole, the explodes Jonathan Lethem's own authorial mythos, separating the flesh-and-blood human from the literary boldfaced name. He sits across from the public version himself, and watches as his influences surface and his previous incarnations flit across his face. 

I spoke with the author by phone, and we discussed his troubled relationship to nonfiction, the joys of appropriation, and why he hates superhero movies. 



In the book's introduction, you write about how "nonfiction" is a troubled and troubling term for you because it suggests objectivity, belying the artifice and constructedness that goes into any written work. Is one of the projects of The Ecstasy of Influence to acknowledge—and explore—authorial self-consciousness within nonfiction?

Semiconsciously, I was teasing at that idea all through the book. It's something that I inherit from my own inclinations. I was writing fiction for so long before I ever tried the most perfunctory kind of book review, let alone a personal essay. And I came to writing fiction, in the first place, out of being an art student. From the beginning, I wanted to make stuff. I wanted to make paintings and sculptures. And so the idea of artifice and craft and artificiality seemed really like the baseline condition of my gesture to begin with. The idea of verifiability or objectivity—these characteristics that writing inherits not from the arts but from journalism or scholarship—those weren't native to me in any way. I was a failed student. I had never written a thesis, let alone a dissertation. I'd never done any journalism. I wasn't even a person who kept a journal. I just wanted to make stories.

Essentially, I finally tiptoed into this role when my editor at Salon, Laura Miller, sort of beguiled me into reviewing a couple of movies. And then I wrote an essay or two for her about my relationship to books. There I was, suddenly doing this thing that I didn't identify with. But the way I got into it—the way I could become interested in it—was to realize that nonfiction had this useful resemblance to writing stories. That actually, you had to invent a voice. You had to invent the formal terms of the piece you wanted to write. And you had to get it aloft the same way you would a piece of fiction. And so I always think of the non-fiction mode of being secretly a subset of my inclination to make artifacts. To make stories.

So one thing that you're doing in these essays is making that hidden part of nonfiction or journalism—the constructed part—apparent and on the surface.

Yeah. Turning the cards over as I play them. I like nonfiction that does that. I'm drawn to essays which play in a little—well, what would you call it? "Meta-nonfiction." [Laughs.] Letting the contrivance reveal itself, or teasing at the edges of being objective. For one thing, it always makes the criticism utterly more persuasive for me—when people build that kind of awareness into it. I'm terribly suspicious of a falsely objective critical voice—so I've invented one for myself that passionately, helplessly disqualifies itself by admitting subjectivity or personal bias everywhere it can possibly do so. It's attractive to me not because I'm trying to prove something so much as I'm trying to explore a mode that I find very compelling.

Presented by

Joe Fassler is a writer based in Brooklyn. His fiction has appeared in The Boston Review, and he regularly interviews authors for The Lit Show. In 2011, his reporting for TheAtlantic.com was a finalist for a James Beard Foundation Award in Journalism.

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